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OsrsNeedsf2P4 hours ago | parent | context | favorite | on: DeepSeek: DeepSeek v4.1 Flash 1017 DS isn't better than Sol and Gemini in the benchmarks, but after working with them all for a while now I'm beginning to understand why people find DS feels so much better. First, it's the tok/s and TTFT from providers. Deepseek blazes through work - at quite good quality - and you don't find yourself waiting for your agents to finish. Second is the openness. Being able to see the CoT and not being randomly blocked for cyber review. You're never wondering if it's stuck or if it will randomly fail. Combined with the great cost value.. My next subscription will probably be Z.ai help 
Philip-J-Fry4 hours ago | next[–] Feels better to me in the sense that it doesn't try to be too clever. When I ask it to do things it actually generates code that a developer would write. That still lets me build software in layers like I do mentally. And it keeps you in control of where abstractions are. Some people would say that you don't need this at all with the frontier llms. But when extending existing software or writing software that fits into an existing ecosystem, I find I still need to offer a lot of guidance. And it's better that the context window isn't flooded with code that was reverted after I looked at it. reply jamesbfb4 hours ago | parent | next[–] > Some people would say that you don't need this at all with the frontier LLMs Hit the nail on the head. Development methodologies pivoting at the whim of frontier models have been one of the things that have been worrying me as of late. reply Abishek_Muthian27 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] I've been using layered development techniques like the parent says even with frontier models, just one agent at a time with Zed. reply trueno3 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] it doesn't worry me too much tbh. This is really just cutting corners and going this route leaves you with some kind of additive ship of theseus piece of software you don't understand and require your frontier model to work with, which just... becomes more additive and gross. right now we're in some proverbial heyday of everyone seeing how absolutely grand of a thing they can make with frontier models. over time i expect some old design philosophies to take hold with people who use LLM's successfully and find a place again paired with developers who understand why such layered methodologies are important... because this whole AI thing wasn't the silver bullet CEO's and crazy execs thought it was. They will eventually get sick of the support burden of badly designed stuff. i anticipate a bit of pendulum swinging back towards "still using AI, but we need smart people to do it because it's expensive and we want it done right". Right now a lot of companies are being extremely reckless imo and they haven't fully realized/felt the cost implications of trainwreck software yet. reply LPisGood1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] What if those “cost implications” are just asking Opus 6.7 to fix whatever issue cropped up? reply TuringTest33 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] In complex systems, issues keep piling up faster than you can fix them. reply brookst1 hour ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] I just use a suite of tests to enforce the mechanical standards (dry, encapsulation, etc) and arch documents for shape + reviews of new work against the two. I’m not seeing any significant drift. reply ygjb1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] Yea, this is one thing that gets me. Vibe coding and freestyle prompting gets wildly different results. Starting from a set of specs and expectations routinely gets me reviewable and we'll tested code. Sure, running the full test suite alot slows things down and uses more tokens, but when I hit a five hour or weekly window, I just roll up my sleeves and start working without the model because the code is layed out the way I expected and is designed to fit my meatbag workflow and pace. reply crossroadsguy3 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] > it doesn't try to be too clever DS is miles better than GLM in this regard. I wanted to add that as PC is planning to go to GLM next. reply drob5182 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] Interesting. I’ve been using GLM 5.3 Flash for a couple months and found it to be great. What has it been doing that you found to be “too clever”? It sometimes gets stuck in loops. I once asked it to do a code review of a simple pattern and it went off on a 45 odyssey trying to analyze too much. But other than those, it’s been a pretty good daily workhorse. And you can’t beat the price. Even Deepseek 4.1 Flash is more expensive. And I switched to GLM 5.3 Flash from DS 4 Flash, my previous daily driver, which I also found quite good. Anyway, my point isn’t to start a “which model is better” subthread, but was just curious what behavior you’ve seen where it’s “too clever.” reply runtime_terror15 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] Anecdotal but I was doing regular adversarial reviews of new work using about 5 models (mostly the open Chinese ones like DS, GLM, Qwen, Kimi, etc) and GLM routinely took much longer for similar results and the same instructions. It would just loop on things and go down rabbit holes more. DS flash has been so consistently good I've kinda settled on it for 90% of my work. I still use adversarial review for bigger changes where I want to make sure any issues are caught early, but I genuinely feel as tho if no new models ever get made I'd be fine with just using DS forever. reply f311a14 minutes ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] For me GLM thinks too much for no reason. It takes a 2-3 turns for DS where for GLM it takes up to 10. I like giving precise instructions,”update function xx to support input yy, add tests”. There is no reason for 10 turns and 5 minutes of waiting. reply UncleOxidant53 minutes ago | prev | next[–] > My next subscription will probably be Z.ai Wait... you just spent 3 paragraphs singing the praises of DS... and then you say you're going to subscribe to the one that makes GLM. ? (I do tend to agree with you, though I tend to favor GLM-5.3-flash over DS 4.1 flash.) reply nfw214 minutes ago | parent | next[–] maybe the point was become of the openness, they will be using z.ai? reply igetspam2 hours ago | prev | next[–] Agreed. It doesn’t have to be better, it just had to be nearly equivalent. I’ve been doing a lot of vulnerability work lately (trying to get ahead of the bots finding exploits in our code) and the frontier models feel like a chaperone at a church dance: get too close and they show up with the ruler and enforce the safety margin. Using deepseek and glm and qwen, I’ve gotten nearly equivalent results without the constraints. I still use frontier models for things but outside of a company environment, I’m happy to spend 1/10 the money, get the same results, and not have try and trick the AI into working. reply abc424 hours ago | prev | next[–] No need to use a chinese provider, in case that's an issue for you. https://fireworks.ai provides this model for an ok price. reply peri-cl3 hours ago | parent | next[–] To add to this, Fireworks (and many competitors, e.g. enumerated here[0]) offer zero-data retention inference, to anyone. DeepSeek cloud does not. It's part of their terms that anything you send them is fair game for them to train models on. [0] https://openrouter.ai/deepseek/deepseek-v4.1-flash (The badges next to companies indicate their privacy terms, i.e. green/yellow/red) reply leftouterjoins1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] It’s pretty clear despite what they want you to think Anthropic and OpenAI train on everyone’s data who has a subsidized plan. Only way you get ZDR is by paying API prices. Also note that it is zero retention, not zero training. reply peri-cl1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] >"Also note that it is zero retention, not zero training" The "green" badges explicitly say the opposite: >"Private: this provider does not train on prompts and does not retain prompt data." I.e. for the example of Fireworks, this is the precise language they use to describe ZDR: >"More technically: prompt and generation data exist only in volatile memory for the duration of the request. If prompt caching is active, some prompt data (and associated KV caches) can be stored in volatile memory for several minutes. In either case, prompt and generation data are not logged into any persistent storage." https://docs.fireworks.ai/guides/security_compliance/data_ha... reply dannyw2 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] I'd rather my data go to China and directly to labs that release open weight models (DeepSeek is MIT licensed still); instead of closed labs and the NSA/CIA; who has far better ability to hurt me than China does. Without getting too much into politics; over the past several decades, one country is going around starting wars, regime changes and other interventionism, or initiating economic warfare (Huawei sanctions because they were getting too competitive to US companies; GPU restrictions; tariffs; etc), and that's not one administration: it's US policy over the past few decades. reply llboston1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] Have you ever wondered why Manus founders gave up billions of dollars from Meta and “voluntarily” moved back to Beijing? One country does things out in the open, while the other operates in the shadows. The latter worries me more. reply Der_Einzige22 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] You mean the project that literally had an anus as its mascot? Wasn’t that a joke project? Maybe the government was admonishing them for naming their company “man-anus” reply throwaway274481 hour ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] It worries me far more what people are ok with us doing in broad daylight. > Have you ever wondered why Manus founders gave up billions of dollars from Meta and “voluntarily” moved back to Beijing? This country wouldn't be such a shithole if we were able to bring the wealthy to heel. I suspect most people on earth see China as the more competently governed country. Understandably, this forum tends to select for people who view private investment positively, but this is clearly insufficient by itself to produce functional societies. reply amelius1 hour ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Have a look here: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/human-rights-index-vdem reply ashkankiani1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] Why link to a number, which means roughly nothing, instead of the specific details on the countries you're trying to compare? I have no idea how to break down or make my own assessment of what 0.83 or 0.18 means. Does that 0.83 for the US include all of the people being shipped off without due process to El Salvador, or do they count that as part of El Salvador's Human Right Index? People like to bring up the Uyghurs immediately, but never really have the same smoke for the US. Also, do we include the prison population in human rights? Do we include access to healthcare? What about systems perpetuating poverty like lack of access to public transportation? To pre-emptively be clear on my stance or potential bias, I stand by no country in the world. I was born in Iran, and my parents left when I was young to the US because they believed in the American Dream. The irony being that the dominos of why they left were initiated by the US and UK. And long before Trump was elected, but certainly immediately afterwards, I decided to leave the US once I had the means. (Also because of the lack of public transit, the $100k medical bills after an accident, being punched by a homeless person, and having my possessions stolen repeatedly and the cops giving me a :shrug:). I moved to Japan, where I experienced blatant racism for the first time. I moved to Hong Kong (and tbh no real complaints so far), but I am technically subject to the freedom of speech constraints on China. I have no allegiance to any country or specific people. My allegiance is to all living beings. reply amelius47 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] Sorry but you're arguing against a reputable institution here. reply ashkankiani38 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] I'm not arguing against a reputable institution, I'm arguing against using that reputation + their final number alone without going through the process to verify the methodology myself, which you didn't link to. You only showed the conclusion, which to all of us, should mean very little until we look into how that number was arrived at. And I don't care if they're reputable, I will look at the methodology and make my own conclusion either way. Appeals to authority are not a substitute for critical thinking. reply amelius32 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] We're not talking about a few % difference here. If you want to look into it then fine, but you have to come up with some really good evidence if you think you can debunk anything here. reply pessimizer20 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] There's absolutely nothing in those numbers to argue against. They are simply providing fluffy quantitative declarations in order for people who don't even claim any particular knowledge or even understanding of the details of the metric (such as yourself) to argue from authority. If they actually said something, it would be much less effective. > We're not talking about a few % difference here. How may freedom percent is it again? Do you lose 1% or 20% for failing to allow foreign ownership of utilities? How many percent do you gain for stopping Russian misinformation? reply amelius7 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] The metric was carefully crafted by a group of experts as means of communicating a complicated topic. I'm not going to discuss it further if you don't have anything substantial to bring to the table. j_maffe31 minutes ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] They're not arguing against the institution. They're arguing against the metric . reply amelius26 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] Yeah but the metric was invented by that reputable organization and given the enormous difference it's not worth any discussion unless they come up with something good in which case they should probably publish about it. reply thisisnotabi1 hour ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] lol the US was a .60 in 1789 during slavery. this chart is useless. reply amelius15 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] The reason the US scores a 0.6 in 1789 comes down to how composite data is aggregated and the global baseline of the 18th century. Yes, people have put thought into this. This is why I trust institutions and not random posters on the internet. reply vehemenz1 hour ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] This is really a roundabout way of saying you have no plans to live, or perhaps even travel, to China. reply kenmacd3 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] I figure (hope) buying from DeepSeek directly benefits them the most so they can release even more improvements and open-weight models. Plus only one country has threatened to annex mine and it wasn't China. reply subscribed2 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] China has annexed (or it claims so) several countries already, so it sounds like you're only concerned with yourself - probably not what you wanted to achieve. (But I'd concede that in the field of genocide China doesn't come up as bad) reply kennywinker2 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Assuming canadian or dane, but maybe there are other places he’s threatened. There are canadian inference providers running deepseek, and definitely eu ones idk about ones based in denmark. The economic sovereignty of any nation, but especially smaller ones like canada and denmark, is harmed by sending our money out of the country when there are options available in country. reply kenmacd1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] > The economic sovereignty of any nation, but especially smaller ones like canada and denmark, is harmed by sending our money out of the country when there are options available in country. I respectfully disagree. I subscribe to the comparative advantage economic principle, so I'm fine with international trade. reply kennywinker56 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] What I am saying isn’t inconsistent with comparative advantage. International trade is fine, but only when it’s not a commodity easily obtained inside your own nation. Open model inference is a commodity. There is no real lost opportunity cost from using canadian owned GPUs or chinese owned ones. In fact, as a country with abundant cheap power, and physical space, canada’s probably a better place than many to run inference. That’s what I meant by “when there are options in country”. reply irrkfjjffj38 minutes ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] yeah thats why hordes of indians control your control now ya dumb shit reply 1515527 minutes ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Nobody needs to annex your country (assuming Canada) - Canada's immigration policy will take care of that for itself. reply specproc4 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] If one is not American, why prefer American? Chinese fine by me, I trust the US providers just as little. reply pimeys4 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] There's also European providers for these models. More than one! reply NortySpock2 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] There's even a European OpenRouter competitor https://www.edenai.co/ reply SSLy1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] Also https://cortecs.ai/detailedServerlessView/deepseek-v4.1-flas... (I like their site bit more over Eden) reply throwa3562622 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Thanks, i didn't know about these guys. Is their pricing competitive? reply esperent42 minutes ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Which ones? And how is the price? reply nekitamo3 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Could you recommend me a few? reply phillc732 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] I’ll add Melious.[1] I feel like I’m getting good value out of my subscription and they have the cheapest GLM-5.3 API rates I could find in Europe. I moved to them recently from Mistral for the better prices. They do have a slightly different daily inference capacity allowance, but it’s actually not too bad once used to it. I was forced to up my game and figure out what GLM-5.3 Flash and Deepseek-4.1 Flash could actually do for me, rather than just throwing everything at GLM-5.3. Quite happily chugging along with a nice balance across them now. I am hoping Melious make the new DS 4.1 Flash 1017 available soonest. [1] https://melious.ai reply pimeys3 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Scaleway, Mistral, Lyceum, Verda, Silo AI, Siili, Upcloud, CSC, Gcore, Nebius... reply KolmogorovComp3 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] I haven't found that Mistral serve DS. reply pimeys2 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] They do not yet. They are testing it but they go with GLM right now. reply pimeys4 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] There are multiple others in EU, and in US. Cheaper, more expensive, slower, faster. So much choice. reply ilaksh1 hour ago | parent | prev | next[–] The link points to OpenRouter with multiple providers. reply itsalwaysgood4 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] Completely unrelated, but it's so odd to see upside down '8's in the first column of the base tables on their pricing page. reply Betelbuddy2 hours ago | prev | next[–] >> Being able to see the CoT Dont assume that is how your model decides... https://arxiv.org/abs/2305.04388 https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.13702 https://arxiv.org/abs/2503.08679 reply bagacrap2 hours ago | parent | next[–] > they frequently generate CoT explanations rationalizing those answers I can't tell if this is a really human thing to do, or if it's just a sycophantic thing to do when your master likes a good story. reply tclancy1 hour ago | parent | prev | next[–] Fair, but you can see the logprobs, right? That alone is pretty valuable. reply simianwords1 hour ago | parent | prev | next[–] This is like one of those folk theories that have some truth but in practice it is useless. I love COT and gives me a good idea about the thought process. Sure it doesn’t work always reply embedding-shape44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next[–] In practice, it does help to immediately be able to tell if you missed something or wrote something incorrect in your prompt, compared to if you didn't have access to the CoT. If you see that it goes off wondering about stuff or thinking about stuff that you know are already solved/known, you cancel the execution, edit the prompt and redo, then observe the CoT again, until you've resolved any "misdirections". Both OpenAI and Anthropic hides so much of that, that you don't really know if it misunderstood something or you got something wrong, until all the turns are complete or you directly see tool calls that implicitly tells you something is wrong. You don't need to read any papers to see this effect concretely when developing together with LLMs. reply tyrabound1 hour ago | prev | next[–] If I were part of a cabal that is interested in preserving control and trying to secure trillions of dollars, it would be a minor effort to nudge and bend the curve against competitors like the Asian AI complex. reply jfengel49 minutes ago | parent | next[–] How would you go about that? reply petu4 hours ago | prev | next[–] Is that a dig on DeepSeek not offering subscription plans? If so OpenCode Go looks good and includes DeepSeek models (yet to try myself). reply eckelhesten3 hours ago | parent | next[–] I wonder what quantization opencode uses for DS models. reply petu21 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] From "What about data and privacy?" in FAQ it sounds like they don't host models themselves. e.g. it says: DeepSeek: ZDR agreement is renewed monthly. The current agreement is valid through October 31, 2026. https://opencode.ai/go They also follow official DeepSeek API peak/off peak hour pricing and link to their docs: DeepSeek V4.1 Flash / V4 Pro: Peak hours are 01:00-04:00 and 06:00-10:00 UTC, Monday through Friday; all other hours, including weekends, are Off-Peak. Learn more. https://opencode.ai/v2/docs/console/go/#usage-limits edit: they used to explicitly name the providers, at least in the past DeepSeek V4 was served with official API https://github.com/anomalyco/opencode/issues/24649#issuecomm... reply copperx2 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Everyone wonders that. reply esafak1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] I think they just pass through requests to DeepSeek, so whatever upstream offers. reply npn2 hours ago | prev | next[–] I do not use DS for coding, but for various natural language processing tasks (even translation) in large volume, and it works wonder. It is very capable for a lot of tasks, not only coding like the other open models. reply jrmg51 minutes ago | prev | next[–] For us neophytes, what does this mean: “randomly blocked for cyber review”? reply jakozaur48 minutes ago | parent | next[–] E.g., your prompt for simple auth works (e.g., decode JWT), but your sessions stop because you are flagged for cybersecurity risk. The Fable is the worst offender, and it is not purely Anthropic's fault. reply esperent40 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] It's happened to me exactly twice in about 6 months of using codex (via pi). Both times were completely bogus and annoying but still, it's not too bad. reply dannyw17 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] OpenAI's models have a lot less false positives for me. Almost always smooth doing vuln scans and fixing them. Anthropic, whether Opus 5.5 or Fable, frequently will review for security, and the classifiers fire mid-way while it's fixing something. Authentication and credential related code, including implementation, also trigger safeguards. Earlier today, I hit what appears to be a sticky "reasoning_extraction" block when attempting to reproduce a LLM paper at small scale, and I asked it ~"tell me more about the idea [X] you considered but dropped". I'm not sure how it works or how long it lasts, but Opus 5.5 has refused to do technical LLM work for me now, even in completely new sessions. reply crossroadsguy3 hours ago | prev | next[–] > not being randomly blocked for cyber review Just to test, will GLM – hosted by an infra provider other than Z.AI – also stop answering if I asked controversial questions from the pov of its country of origin? Or third party infra providers can perform some unhinging on the model before hosting? Or actually the blocking happens even before the question reaches the LLMs in that country? (Note: my paid LLM access at this point are only via DS and GLM subs - 90-95% usage; and a free Gemini Pro access. I hope that adds some cred that I am not trying to take potshots at the their country of origin). reply flexagoon19 minutes ago | parent | next[–] Depends on the question. Most models won't tell you how to make weapons because they're trained not to, but the political stuff is usually blocked on the API level reply SSLy1 hour ago | parent | prev | next[–] to add to the corrent sibling answer, the unhinging is called abliteration by the wider community but it's hard to find someone who will serve that over API. reply OsrsNeedsf2P2 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] It will not. Ask DeepSeek about Tiananmen Square. It will happily answer reply MangoCoffee4 hours ago | prev | next[–] Deepseek and Muse are my go to for cheap. both work perfect for basic and mid tier tasks reply esafak1 hour ago | parent | next[–] Muse is fantastic for open source work. At least 1.3 was, for its price. Wonder makes less economic sense. reply nextaccountic4 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] What about mimo v2.6 pro? reply FacelessJim3 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] I’ve jumped between mimo and ds quite a bit lately. Mimo seems to be slightly better in terms of what it can achieve in terms of end results. But it gets there very slowly, and in a super convoluted way. Sometimes it’s almost frustrating to read its reasoning. Also I’ve noticed that it tends to not use tools in the harness as much as other models. I usually default to ds, and if it gets stuck try mimo but usually just for fire and forget tasks. After a bit I come back and see what it did. reply esafak1 hour ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Usually great but it infuriates me sometimes with what it does. DeepSeek is more consistent and certainly faster. reply pimeys3 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] I mean... I ported some of my childhood Finnish shareware games for Linux and Rust with DeepSeek V4.1 Flash. It took about six hours of spelunking and finally I was pretty happy with the results! I did it twice. Tokens for both of the games were around 3 euros. reply blahgeek3 hours ago | prev | next[–] > Deepseek... My next subscription will probably be Z.ai Wait wut? You do realize that they are two different companies, right? reply throwa3562622 hours ago | parent | next[–] Z.ai (well technically alibaba) used to support both GLM and DS models in their API and coding plans. reply zxilly8 minutes ago | root | parent | next[–] z.ai was not alibaba. z.ai got glm and alibaba got qwen reply quinndupont2 hours ago | prev | next[–] Agreed, but don’t subscribe to z.ai; their inference is terrible. Stick with openrouter reply effortprogramme3 hours ago | prev | next[–] I love using glm 5.3 more than deepseek because of performance reply sunaookami4 hours ago | prev | next[–] Huh, doesn't DeepSeek take the longest because it overthinks way too much? Haven't tested this release yet but was very disappointed with past ones because it takes an eternity to do anything because it constantly overthinks and questions itself way too much instead of just starting. reply pimeys4 hours ago | parent | next[–] It thinks a bit more, but if the cache reads are free or almost free, and it blasts through 10x faster than GPT Sol/Terra/Luna, it doesn't really matter. Just don't use the max thinking for implementation, go with high or low. reply jambutters4 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] Why not use max thinking for implementation? For cost reasons? reply pimeys3 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] Because it doesn't make difference for my use. High is good enough! If you do an assistant for yourself, low is more than enough. It reduces the speed and tends to overthink sometimes which is really annoying. For programming, 4.1/high is the bread and butter in my daily work. reply AspireOne3 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] For time reasons. reply k__4 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] I think, as long as you don't set thinking to max and use a fitting system prompt, it's not a big issue. reply davedx3 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] Yes, and this version explicitly addresses that reply Leynos4 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] 4.1 Flash on medium is a solid builder agent reply sehw3 hours ago | parent | prev | next[–] LLMs don't think. reply epolanski1 hour ago | prev | next[–] For 99% of the tasks any model really would do, even GPT 5.4 from an year ago. It's only for long running/very difficult cases that the differences are here, and they are small. reply Oxodao4 hours ago | prev | next[–] also it's cheap, using it in opencode is great reply abc424 hours ago | parent | next[–] Note that opencode routes deepseek requests to China. reply Flere-Imsaho4 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] I have to ask what's everyone's issue with the requests to China. We've had 25 years of American big tech basically capture all our data, and use that to make insane profits. reply vehemenz1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] This is a false equivalency. American providers don't answer to their government. reply abc423 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Sure. Can you tell me why that means that it's ok for Chinese big tech to capture all our data? reply Turskarama3 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] The government that is most likely to use your data against you is the government of the country you live in. If a foreign government wanted to use your data against you the easiest way for them to do it would ironically be to send it to your government. reply Barbing1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] Makes sense in short term & for personal queries. A German or Norwegian model provider shouldn’t tattle on US Southerners seeking reproductive care. Long-term & software engineering fronts: I hear occasional railing against “US hegemony”. Anyone concerned that if a new tech gives rise to a different country, they’ll become the source of ire instead? (This isn’t my field, at all.) reply Oxodao3 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] My code is opensource, china already has it. For my professional work we have entreprise plans with OpenAI / Anthropic reply igetspam2 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] If you pay for a business plan on openrouter (I know, it’s not opencode, just another option), you can geo lock providers if China is a concern. reply hgoel2 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Opencode also has a setting to not route to China, though this would probably just disable the models that do not have providiers in alternative locations. reply miroljub3 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] For an average European, why is it better than routing requests to the USA? reply BOOSTERHIDROGEN3 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] Chime-in for an average non us citizen why is it better ? reply swiftcoder1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] The argument has never been that it would be better (a domestic EU provider would obviously be better than either from a data handling perspective). But its not obviously worse reply abc423 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Valid question. I have no 100% factual answers and neither does anyone else here. So I go with feeling, and that feeling says that China is worse. The feeling is partially supported by the fact that China is softly backing Russia in its attack against the west. Trump's USA is obviously completely horrible, but he is also in large part a product of Russian influence, which again is part of the larger block in which China resides. reply tancop3 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] "The west" is a stupid idea America uses to force themselves and Israel into the same league as EU countries. And China is not really supporting Russia, they make money off the war and want to keep it going as long as possible so both Russia and Ukraine become weak and more open to their influence. Is it evil? Absolutely, but you can't compare them to USA when Trump is actively doing regime change operations, deporting its own citizens and putting sanctions on the ICC. Chinese communists want to stay in power at all costs but America wants to expand its power into the whole world. It's not the same level of danger at all. reply akho2 hours ago | root | parent | next[–] > want to keep it going as long as possible note that the volume of EU and US support to Ukraine is obviously calibrated to the same goal. reply jubilee332 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Yes I unfortunately trust those who are motivated by money more than ideology. Greed, while horrible and ugly, is at least very predictable. Messianic, or even utopian or pretty much any ideology, can lead to absolutely insane levels of destruction. You just don't know what true believers of any sort are willing to do. reply igetspam2 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] To be fair, east and west are in relation to England, not the US. Trump’s a smelly orange shit but the US at least pretends to have data privacy protections and we can’t legally compel companies to have back doors… yet. I think. It’s very hard to keep up with all the nonsense these days. reply swiftcoder1 hour ago | root | parent | next[–] > and we can’t legally compel companies to have back doors In a post-Snowden world where the existence of PRISM is no longer a secret, I'm not sure how folks can keep stating this with a straight face reply altcognito4 hours ago | root | parent | prev | next[–] Doesn’t that depend on the router service provider? reply s_a_m4 hours ago | prev[–] still a myracle to me what people achieve with it? I tried so many things with it, everything is broken it produces reply
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